August 4th, 2014
I wanted my blog posting to be memorable, not just for the readers, but also for myself. As I surveyed the area around Cocha Cashu I tried to think of interesting topics that I could cover. When I finally got the idea to interview John Terborgh I felt like it was one of those lightening in a bottle moments. I knew it would make a great addition to our Class blog.
I was a little hesitant to approach John at first; after
all, this was the man who wrote most of the papers we were assigned to read
before coming to Peru. But after some preparation, I caught John in the dining
area pouring a cup of coffee. I told him little about our blog and then I asked
if he would consider an interview. He was more than willing, and asked what
time would be good for me. We decided that 4pm would work perfectly for us
both.
I walked towards John’s office in the laboratory of the
station and around that time, it began to rain heavily. John greeted me as I
walked in and I set my phone down to record our conversation. The voice
recorder on my phone picked up the sound of the drizzling rain on the thatched
roof and the calls of a number of birds. For an interview in the Neotropics,
the setting couldn’t have been more perfect.
“Tropical Ecology Is
Still Alive”: An Interview with Dr. John
Terborgh (Duke University and Founder of Cocha Cashu Biological Station)
Could you tell
me a little bit about yourself, your background, and your relationship with
Cocha Cashu.
That’s a lot of
questions at once. I started out in cell biology a long time ago. I did my PhD
in Cell biology. On plants and I was interested in such things as the control
of development by light and endogenous rhythms of photosynthesis and what was
regulating those, and so yeah, I did a lot of research in those aspects using
mostly, mostly using algae, single celled plants that are a lot easier to deal
with than multicellular plants.
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| Cocha Cashu Biological Station (Photo by U. Valdez) |
So I had always been
an outdoor person, and after working in a lab for a number of years I decided
that really that wasn’t what I wanted to do. I wanted to work out in nature,
and I was lucky at that point in history, to get a job that allowed me to
switch my fields from the cell biology of a single celled plant to whole
ecosystems and multicellular organisms. That was just sort of a fluke, but I
managed to get a job at the University of Maryland teaching plant ecology.
About which I knew nothing at all. I never had a class in it, and so I had to
learn it from scratch. And that’s where I got started working in the Tropics
with a colleague of mine who’s pretty well known. His name is Jarred Diamond
and he’s written a lot of.. he’s much commented on books. So we catalyzed each
other into tropical field biology and he spent the rest of his career, doing
field work of various kinds in Papua New Guinea, and I’ve been here in Peru
since 1963, when we came here for the first time. So that’s now fifty one years
ago. And now how did I happen to wind up here? That is another story. I say
from 63 to 73 I worked in other parts of Peru from north to south really. In ten
years I had seen one herd of white lipped peccaries and a single spider monkey.
And I knew that wasn’t the things ought to be. So I was on the lookout for a
study site that had intact fauna, and a lot of friends and colleagues that were
here in Peru told me that the only place that was, was the Manu. And it just
was a happy circumstance that at that very time the park was established. 1973,
the same month I had came in the first time with some colleagues just to look
at what was here, and see whether it would serve the purposes that I had in
mind. And yeah, it was a revelation. I had never seen anything like this before.
In ten years, nothing. There aren’t any animals outside of this park maybe a
few very remote places, but even then, even then 30 or 40 years ago then been
pretty systematically hunted out by now. Very very little left so this place is
really special and one of the last of it’s kind. It should be appreciated for
that.
Now you mentioned the transition between cell
biology to tropical ecology. What first sparked your interest in tropical
ecology?
I’ve always been an outdoor person and I’ve
been a birdwatcher, and I’ve been a mountain climber. I’ve done all sorts of
things. I just liked to do outdoor work, so I felt that would be a better life
than being in the lab all the time.
What’s one of your favorite things about Cocha
Cashu and the station around here?
Oh, Well I mean, of course the natural
environment is not something you can duplicate anywhere else. It’s really very
very becoming extremely rare. Which is a sad thing to say but it’s true.
Extremely rare on a global scale and I’ve talked to a lot of colleagues and
more and more of people, like minded people I would say are coming here or
going to Gabon, which is in central Africa. And it’s the other place.
Practically stands alone as the other place where’s there’s complete fauna and
where you can study ecology with a complete system and not a system that’s been
battered beyond recognition. So my wife and I work in Gabon too, but that’s
another topic. We don’t have to talk about that anymore. But what else do I
like about it? Oh well I. Apart from the nature and the plants and animals. I
enjoy all the indigenous people here. A lot of them are my friends now; I’ve
been here a long time. And they’ve changed hugely since I came here. Now it’s about
the third generation and all the old guys, the original generation. All but one
have died off now, so the third sometimes even fourth generation’s been very
rapid change. They have some medical, access to medical services. Not very
good, by our standards but it is good enough to make a pretty big difference in
their mortality risk, and they get a very small amount of education. Not nearly
enough, but it’s enough to change their outlook about a lot of things and so
more and more they are interested in getting jobs, and joining the rest of
society. So there’s very rapid change going on. And that's something, something
quite fascinating to observe. Seeing who does it and why and how they react to
it and all of that. And the difficulties they experience.
Do you have any favorite memorable times,
maybe crazy events or anything you could tell me about?
Oh, I’ve tried very hard to avoid those. A
good manager thinks about risk and tries to avoid it. So we haven’t had too
many major mishaps. Which is something. It’s a blessing, something to be very
grateful for. Yeah but there are some wild parties here. No doubt about that.
Real wild parties. As for accidents, very few fortunately.
Well that’s good. A couple of the other
students were interested in maybe if you had a favorite animal or plant… or
tree
*Laughs*
You like them all
pretty much? On the river coming down I saw a capybara and I felt like, There’s
my spirit animal.
*laughs* Well I’ll tell ya the animal that
most gives the new world tropical forests its special flavor is the White-lipped peccary, and they went. They just disappeared two years ago and there’s
not one anywhere in the vicinity. An epidemic passed through them. They died
like flies and they’re gone now. They will come back someday. But this is the
second time it’s happened and it took twelve years for them to come back the
first time. Who knows how long it’s going to take this time. But they are
normally very abundant, they’re around all the time, you could count them every
time you go into the forest. And now there aren’t any so that’s a big gaping
hole in what is normally part of an environment.
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| White-lipped Peccary (Tayassu pecari) (Photo source: mammalwatching.com) |
Have you noticed any
changes in the ecosystem due to their disappearance?
Yeah, Harold is studying that. You should get
Harold to talk about it. But there have been other things too. I mean it really
has a huge impact on the plant community ‘cause their such an important
species. Seed predator, herbivore, and bulldozer. They do all kinds of things.
So Harold’s been studying that for a long time. Go talk to him about that.
Any favorite plants or trees or anything?
Laughs I’m not into these favorite things.
There just not my style. I like them all.
What is life like
away from the field station? Do you do a lot of other traveling?
Yeah as a matter of
fact we do, My wife and I. I’m in a semi-retired state, I still get a bit of a
salary, but I have a lot of freedom that I didn’t have when I was teaching full
time. So my wife and I spent about six months a year traveling in other parts
of the world. And so we were five weeks in Australia and were likely to go to Gabon
before the year’s over. Then were going to Malaysia, and then were going to
Africa again. Another part of Africa and on it goes. So we travel quite a lot.
What would you like
my class to take away from our limited time here?
Well you know, I think
given that the time is limited. That impressions are more important than facts,
and I guess you could say appreciation is one kind of impression. You really
are seeing something that you can’t see most places. In fact I’ve been in this
business all my life and I can’t tell you another place where you could go and
live in relative comfort, with a building and prepared meals, where you can see
fauna like this. I just don’t think there’s another place. Well maybe I’ll take
that back. I do know of one place and that’s Tikal in Guatemala. You can see
lots of animals there. Wonderful place for animals but the place is full of tourist’s
every day and it’s a different atmosphere.
Most of my classmates
and I are pursuing careers in the environmental field; Ecology, biology,
environmental science and studies. Do you have any advice for students like us?
Laughs*. Yeah well
I’m an environment school too as you may know. We turn out about 150 people a
year with master’s degrees in environmental management and I think that the
best thing we can all hope for, is that sooner rather than later the world will
start taking the environment seriously, instead of trying to pretend it doesn’t
matter. And that’s the thing to be pushing for. Once there is some political
leadership then… politicians are able to say out loud that the entire future of
humanity depends on how the environment is managed, then there would be work
for all of you and then some. As long as the politicians are all trying to deny
that it has any relevance to anything then these aren’t good times. You know, we’ve
got a congress that doesn’t… well it’s not that they don’t believe, but they’re
all hypocrites and liars really. They deny that climate change is occurring or
that is has any… that there should be any response to it. In fact the
legislator in my own state passed a law forbidding any state agency from planning
for climate change in any respect. It’s just, they’re not allowed to consider
it in their planning process. And so they will go on building structures in low
lying areas and on beaches, and get wiped out. But these are the kinds of
attitudes that are very prevalent, enough to create majorities in legislatures.
They are just dreaming, they’re denying reality. This is not good.
Do you believe that
the change that you are looking for, and the change that needs to happen will
come from the government, or do you think it will be from bottom up? People
demanding that they pay attention to these kinds of things.
In the U.S. Things
will have to change profoundly. It may come from civil society. That is from
NGO’s and other such organizations or it may be that the rest of the world will
get together and then the United States will be so far out of support or behind, then the rest of the world will embarrass us into doing something were not
inclined to do otherwise. But I don’t know which is going to happen or which
will happen first. But as long as we keep electing Politicians who are ( )it’s
not going to happen in the U.S. And as long as people that are taking up their propaganda…people
believe all types of nonsense that just is wrong. Factually wrong. It’s very
odd.
What is one thing
that you might like people reading our blog to know about the field station or
tropical ecology?
*Laughs* Tropical
Ecology is still alive and this is one of the best places to do it. So let them
know that.
After interviewing John I felt humbled and inspired. As he explained his background and reasoning
for coming to Cocha Cashu I knew, I would not be here without him. His
knowledge of the species of the rainforest and their interactions is extensive
to say the least. The complexity of this ecosystem is difficult to comprehend for
a first time visitor to the Amazon Basin. For now, I am content with standing
in the forest with my senses fully absorbing my surroundings. “Holy Shit.” Is
the most I can usually articulate in these times of almost meditative peace.
John has been at Cocha Cashu for many years, but does not
show any signs of slowing down. He is still conducting research and writing
papers. He still jumps into the lake to cool off on hot days without fear of
Caiman or piranha. But most importantly, he is still a voice for the millions
of species that call this area home; an immensely huge array of life that
cannot speak out against the impacts of humans.
Jesse Barr
I am from beautiful Vancouver, Washington. I am an
Environmental Studies major with the University of Washington’s POE. After
graduation I plan to pursue a Master’s degree focusing in Sustainable Business
Administration. In my free time you’d probably find me with my nose in a book
or exploring the old growth forests and rivers of the Pacific Northwest
(Fly-fishing rod in hand).
I would
like to thank my family and friends for their support. I wouldn't have been unable
to fund this spectacular trip on my own. With their help, I was able to realize
my dream of immersing myself in one of the most biologically diverse and remote
areas of the word. I am looking forward to applying everything I learned and
experienced in Peru to further my career, and promote a sustainable world.
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